Mouse in the Library

No, you did not overreact.

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suzilem.livejournal.com

IMHO, you did not overreact.

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sabine791110.livejournal.com

I agree with what the others have said. I do not think that you overreacted. I am sorry that your "friend" has decided to "help" and is self-righteously convinced that she knows what's best for everyone involved.

As for me, since I only know what the pixels on my screen tell me, my view is more than a little biased. I freely admit that I do not know everything about the situation. But I think I know a little bit about trust issues and how friends - even those who are trying to stay neutral in a conflict - are supposed to behave.

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netdancer.livejournal.com

No, if anything you reacted better then *I* would have. That's one of my trigger issues...trust.

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griffen.livejournal.com

Absolutely you did not overreact. You had a run-in with a person who has a long and documentable history of appointing zirself as The Person Who Thinks Zie Knows Best For Everyone, Whether Invited To Or Not - and that's not your fault.

Personally, it's one of the very few offenses that I can't forgive eventually without remorse shown on the part of the offender. I think you did remarkably well all things considered.

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Yes, I do. But I obviously am biased. As are your friends, obviously, also biased.

Ironically, I would post my exact words here, but that would break the trust that I did try to maintain, of only discussing this specifically with the five adults in question, the post-Sanctuary folks in this situation.

Here. You have my explicit permission to repost exactly what I posted, word for word, in the much-alluded-to post (http://chaiya.livejournal.com/548963.html?nc=5), which has been much misinterpreted, from my point of view. You can also repost what I wrote in my followup post (http://chaiya.livejournal.com/549176.html). Other than those two posts, all of my comments should be viewable by your friends because they're all on your LJ posts. Both of my posts were written by me, filtered to Catchild, Ebon, Scott, Naomi, Louis, my husband, and Scott's two siblings who I keep in contact with, one of whom was on all of Naomi's relevant filters and has talked with me briefly about it, and one of whom doesn't actually read LJ but who is on the filter because that's how I set it up when I set up my family filter, lo these many years ago. It's how I thought of the people on that list, as being members of my family.

Repost these posts of mine to your flist, in public, whatever. I'll repeat, the thoughts which I posted to this teeny filter had no actual information (or even implied information) that wasn't already public, in terms of family issues, and far more detail has been posted by others (including Naomi) in comments on Naomi's subsequent public post than anything I had to say. Whether or not I was "right" in my opinions or thoughts, this whole argument doesn't seem to be about the actual information gleaned from said posts. Because you yourselves have said far more in public posts (as have your friends revealed far more in your public post) than I ever touched on. If I had it all to do over again, would I do it differently? Obviously. If I were rewriting history, I would do much differently, knowing what I know now. But did I do anything that deserved these lashings and public outcry? Please, try to be fair and consider -- let everyone consider -- what I actually wrote.

Then feel free to link to the various (http://omimouse.livejournal.com/97265.html?thread=276209#t276209) attacks (http://omimouse.livejournal.com/97265.html?thread=280817#t280817), most of which I can't link to anymore because I am no longer on that filter, and some of which are in said locked posts in my LJ, made by Louis. For that matter, I think most of the abuse consists of Louis shouting at me, although a lot of your friends jumped on the bandwagon, too, from what I can recall.

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And ask this biased court of public opinion, the jurors being your own friends on your own little corner of the net, if I really did deserve it. I don't think I did. I didn't say what you wanted to hear, obviously, and we clearly have different definitions of etiquette and what is okay and what's not. But deserve threats of bodily harm? No. Nor would I inflict on you what you have sicced on me, were our situations reversed.

Honestly, I was trying to talk with you, this person who I thought of as a member of my extended family, who I thought was usually fairly even-minded ... I was trying to talk with all of you, which I think -- I still think -- is an utterly reasonable thing to do. And I am deeply sorry that you and Louis and possibly Scott think that, in doing so, I overstepped boundaries and broke your trust. I am sorry I can't understand your viewpoint on this, and you can't understand mine. I am sorry you can't see that that's not what I intended, or what I thought I was doing, or what I think I did even now. I'm sorry that you've reacted to your own interpretation of my words, rather than how I intended them. I am sorry that we don't have the same viewpoint, because if you had done the same thing to me (which, from a certain perspective, you have done worse, with all of this lambasting of me in public on your LJ), I might have told you I didn't want your input, but I wouldn't have attacked you, misrepresented you to my friends so that they offer to inflict bodily harm on you, and then decide that such a disconnect in our relating to one another this one time means that we can't ever relate to each other or trust one another again. Which is, y'know, what you've done thus far.

And, in case it isn't obvious, if I didn't still care, I wouldn't bother with all of this work of communicating and trying to explain. It may still come to just giving up because we can't make it work, but I'd really rather not throw the baby out with the bathwater, to use the obvious cliche.

From:

hakamadare.livejournal.com

well, i’ve only seen some of your reactions, so i can’t speak to everything you’ve done.

i think you did overreact, and i will tell you why i think so.

i understand from your previous posts that you feel betrayed and attacked. i ask you this, however:

do you, in your heart of hearts, believe that chaiya wishes you harm, or wishes harm to anyone in your family? do you see that belief as consistent with her past actions with regard to you and your family? it seems to me that over the space of a few days, in your eyes she’s changed from being a family member to being an evil enemy; do you think that she’s been out to get you all along, and is only now showing her true colors and stabbing you in the back? do you think she’s always been actively malevolent towards you? do you think she ever meant well towards you and your family?

if you think that your interpretation of the events of the past few days is indeed representative of the way chaiya behaves towards you and your family, then i can understand your decision to break contact with her (and i wonder why you didn’t do so sooner, and why you haven’t done the same to me). if you don’t, however, then i ask you to try to understand her motivations for what you perceive to be her recent actions. i don’t think she wishes you harm, and i don’t think she ever has (i get the sense she’s angry about the things you and some of your friends have said to her recently, but that’s not the same thing at all).

you are the best judge of your own mental and emotional state; if you need time to cool off, take time. once you’ve done so, though, please try to see her actions in the context of wanting to help make all of your lives better, rather than the context of trying to cause trouble.

-steve

From:

starcat-jewel.livejournal.com

No, you did not over-react.

I might not have said anything one way or the other, except that the person who originally quoted material from a locked post to people who were not intended to hear it, and who can be relied on to make the situation worse, has now come in here, claimed she did nothing wrong, and started playing the martyr. Out of her own mouth she stands condemned -- I don't need to be the friend of anyone in this situation to see where the wrong lies.

This is not someone you can ever trust with any kind of sensitive information ever again. On stuff like this, there are no second chances.

From:

elialshadowpine

Adding to the chorus here:

No, you did not overreact.

Some years ago now, I posted a heavily filtered LJ entry venting about things that had been going on with my ex-girlfriend. I was very hurt by some of the things she had said and needed a safe place to talk about it. Had someone quoted what I had said, the already tense situation there probably would've gone thermo.

I would have been just as pissed and perhaps even more so. You. Don't. Pull. That. Shit.

PERIOD.

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And this comment above is why I asked that you repost exactly what I wrote, Naomi. Because all of your friends think that I quoted your material from a locked post. Which is not what I did. I quoted what I wrote, I believe it was my first comment on the locked post you wrote, and it didn't reference anything not already public about the situation. It didn't go into any details about anyone's posts on the topic, just that I thought the drama was impacting everyone's ability to be rational and fair and that it seemed to be impacting the kids as well, based on my recent conversation with Bear Cub. Ironically, I was trying to talk with all of you about being more peaceful and less emotionally ramped up. I quoted my words to the members of our family, and now you all condemn me for doing so, most of you because you don't even know at this point what I said, but your post, Naomi, implies that I have committed some heinous crime. Even Scott, when I talked with him, was so seeing red that he didn't remember that I did not in fact send the message to Kathy or Cee or even my husband when I emailed. Because the court of public opinion says I did so, he honestly thought I had.

I'm sorry if you think that my trying to communicate is acting like a victim or whatever. I'm trying to continue to communicate, and clearly you're not hearing what I'm trying to say. Because, among other things, I have also been trying to apologize for this crime that I don't think is a crime, that of quoting my own words and trying to have a conversation. Clearly you see it differently, and I'm trying to respect that, but I'm also just trying to talk to you about it, and you don't seem to be interested in listening. You're not having this conversation with me, Naomi, you're having it with the friends you know will agree with you.

If I had it all to do over, I wouldn't post anything at all. Because clearly it hasn't helped, and my goal was to have a conversation with all of you in the hopes that it would help.

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It came from a locked post; it referenced stuff that folks that you sent it to/let on your LJ filter had not been privy to.

Oh no, you didn't post anything *I* wrote; but you outlined it very, very, very well.

You discussed something that was going on under a friends lock with someone not your (O)SO who was not on that lock. Quite bluntly, that's a no-no.

Now, horse dead, topic over, moving on with my life. Back the fuck off of me or be ban-hammered.

From:

dimers.livejournal.com

I feel you and

louisadkins did overreact. Understandably, when

chaiya defended her actions, you were already feeling upset enough that her defense just made you feel worse rather than convince you -- but the defense is valid, and

chaiya's post was within reasonable bounds and was not unconsidered. My viewpoint on the validity and consideration is certainly not the only way to look at things, but by insulting her lifestyle choices, you made it clear that you were indeed overreacting, regardless of her reasons.

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Okay, I gotta ask. "Insulting her lifestyle choices"?

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Above comment deleted in the intrests of maintaining Cyrstal's privacy.

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Correction, screened. Feel free to e-mail or call; I am *not* going to discuss any of my opinions, good, bad, or indiffernt in regards to Crystal's private life on a public post.

Hiding behind curtains? Nope, just that it ain't my life to spread to the public now, is it?

From:

twfarlan.livejournal.com

Considerate of you, since spreading private details of your life to uninvited parties was what caused the scrum in the first place.

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That's an interesting place to draw that line, given the rest of what you and others have been writing about me. I do appreciate the sudden respect for my privacy. I also think the root question

dimers asked was a good one (or at least one I'd like to hear the answer to): Why did you make derogitory comments about my religion and sexuality? The comment about hoping that I hug a cactus was presumably venting, but deciding to bring my religious and sexual identity into it seemed ... well, rather low.

No, you didn't do this mild character assassination in a public post, but you did do it in a non-private arena, and yes, it got back to me. I believe that was predictable, in fact, given that people who care about me were reading it, including my own husband.

I have been trying very hard to remind myself that you are under a lot of stress, that you have a lot going on right now, that everyone gets pissed off sometimes, and that you are normally a very nice person. I haven't, at any point, even in private, said anything unkind or hurtful about you. Actually, I have halted others from saying unkind and hurtful things about you in private, too.

As I assume you know, it *was* hurtful of you to say those things about me, behind my back or to my face. I never realized you disapproved of my religious life, or my sexuality, and I am honestly astonished at the way in which you chose to express that now. This seems, to me, to be rather bad form. But clearly we have disparate definitions of bad behavior. I am willing to accept that, work toward mutual peace and understanding, and move on, trying not to step in the same landmine in the future. Are you?

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You (and your vocal friends) seem to think poorly of me for pursuing this "dead horse" conversation, but I have been trying to find some way of salvaging this situation with a workable relationship at the end of it. You choose to interpret my words and actions as negatively as possible, and spin them as such to your friends and my cousin, but I pursue this because (as previously stated) I do still care, particularly about

warinbear and

catchild, but about all of you in general. I realize that pointing this out means I probably look even more like a prick to you and whatever audience is still listening, but I have tried to be fair and calm throughout this discussion. I have tried to say and do nothing that I will regret later. I do not feel you have lent me the same courtesy/respect. Mock me again for "playing the martyr" or whatever, but I honestly do feel this is a poor way to treat someone who at least used to be a friend and family member, up until this past weekend.

You also ignored my multiple apologies, which probably weren't what you were looking for, but they were heartfelt and honest. I am, honestly and truly, very sorry and very sad about all of this. Had I the ability to do it all over again, I would choose differently, and try to avoid this landmine that has exploded on me.

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If you want there to be any chance down the road of salvage, then Please. Drop. This. And. Give. Me. Space.

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If you are really and truly interested in trying to resolve this, then please (pleasepleaseplease) give it a rest for a bit. With everything else, this is likely to get entangled in other stuff. Give it a few days, try talking sometime next week, just give it a bit.

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