Looks Like It's Official

[omimouse]

K e-mailed Bear-Cub today. She wanted Bear-Cub to let her know when her school's Open House Day was, so that K could be there. No, none of the adults got any contact about this, why do you ask?

This prompted a discussion between catchild, louisadkins, warinbear, and myself. We already know ebonunicorn's opinion on this; we will still be checking with him after he gets home from work this evening.

We will be notifying K that we are severing contact with her. End of story, no more chances, this was the last line.

chaiya, dimers, we don't know when we're going to be sending her the letter on this, but I figured that you guys would want the heads up on the shitstorm that will more than likely ensue after this. If you want a warning closer to the date, we can let you know then as well.

Warin and I talked with Bear-Cub about this a little while ago. She told us that she had been expecting this for a while. Bear-Cub is not happy about the situation, but it really looks like she's been preparing herself for this for a while now. We told her that she should feel free to talk with us, ask us questions, or just scream on this whole issue any time she needs/wants to. She knows that this is not her fault.

We will be talking with Puppy about this after she gets back from her playdate with a friend. Telling her that Nana won't be allowed to have any contact with her at all anymore will probably be one of the hardest things that any of us have ever done. Bear-Cub is old enough that she saw what was happening, and she had time to prepare for what she knew was going to happen as a result of it. Puppy is still too young to catch what's been happening, so this will more than likely come mostly out of the blue for her. Which means that it will hit hard.

I feel tired and very old right about now. None of us wanted this to happen. None of us wanted to do this.

But at least I know some measure of peace right now. Phooka, who has been emulating her sisters and calling K "Nana"; Phooka, who loves so easily and trusts so very completely; Phooka, my youngest daughter, will never look at me and ask with hurting eyes, "Mama Tante Omi, why doesn't Nana love me?"

EDIT: Wed., Aug 3, 14:00 This being my journal, I forgot that not everyone who reads it knows what's been going on between us and K. It suddenly occured to me that it might appear as though we're cutting ties over a few instances, and without trying to work anything out. K has been pulling stuff like this and far, far worse for at least as long as Warin and Catchild have been married. There have been several attempts to tell her that we consider her behaviour unacceptable. It does not appear to have had any real impact on her.

Just to let everyone know that we've been dealing with this for a very long time now, and that we have tried the less drastic routes.

Comments

[teddywolf.livejournal.com]

I suggest one thing: part of the cutting-off should include mention of why, eg the undercutting of authority of the parental types. This is important, as it gives a means to possibly redress this later.

I will bring up another thing: unless K has a habit of promising things to the kids in email and then dropping the bomb on you last minute, it is entirely possible she was simply asking Bear Cub a question in order to be able to set things up with you in reasonable time. I know she has a history of undercutting you; I still believe this is a possible explanation, though I admit I know not how probable.

The glare is not directed at you.

[dimers.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, K had no intention of working with any adults on bearcub's Open House date, but rather handing them a fait accompli. As her second son, I have enough experience with her habits to see that as part of a familiar pattern. I admire your positivity, though, and try myself to reserve judgement about others' motivations. Thirty years has been enough to convince me about K's.

Regardless of whether K intended to okay her plans with the family adults, she ought to be aware by this point that she needs to tread more carefully and avoid even the appearance of manipulation. She should have CCd the message to someone with authority. K is far more intelligent than she would need to be to understand that.

Re: The glare is not directed at you.

[teddywolf.livejournal.com]

Fair 'nuf. If she had simply asked Bear Cub with the stated intention of then asking the adults that likely would have been another matter; but if it's not in her pattern it's not in her pattern.

Re: The glare is not directed at you.

[chaiya.livejournal.com]

I'm frustrated as well with K's actions, but I have some misgivings. Once she got the message of "you may not see the girls unless we say so," she became far more pleasant and appeasing and tried hard (I think) to prove herself as someone who could be trusted to have contact with them.

I worry how this decision will impact the girls, more than how it will impact the adults. I know cutting K off would help the adults in the household a fair bit in terms of their sanity. However, the girls like K, get positive attention from her, and (I hate to be materialistic here, but ...) presents. That's a worrisome thing to cut kids off from, and if they go to K when they rebel as teens, that might be even worse.

End Devil's Advocate mode.

I dunno. I spin my wheels whenever I think of K, because she acts polite in person but then talks about me behind my back, too. I think there's no easy solution. Whatever Sanctuary kin decide to do for now or in the future will be difficult in some way because it's such a tangled situation. But whatever the crew decides, I support their right to make those decisions and I want to be here for them if I can be helpful. Cutting K off or not will not change how I feel about the Sanctuary crew, and I want to state that for the record, too.

Re: The glare is not directed at you.

[omimouse.livejournal.com]

Thank you. You have no idea how worried I was that you and dimers were going to be mad at us over this.

As for the girls . . . Bear-Cub seems to be more relieved than anything else. I think she was noticing a lot more of what was happening than she let on. Time will have to tell on what Puppy's long-term reaction will be.

If it's okay with you, I think I need to try and have any further conversation on this topic be either over the phone or in person. Mark your calendars, folks. I'm having trouble writing my viewpoint down.

Re: The glare is not directed at you.

[chaiya.livejournal.com]

Omi, I don't think Drew or I would ever have cause to be mad at you, but especially not over a decision like this, which we're in pretty good position to understand.

Also? I have trouble sometimes remembering what's said when it's verbal, especially on the phone, so if you want to talk with me more about it, I'm more than happy to talk in person while we're visiting. :)

*hugs*

[elialshadowpine]

*hugs*

FWIW, I completely support and agree with your decision. That said, I've been on the other end of it; I never had contact with my paternal grandmother (considering she arranged my half-sister's kidnapping and that's only tip of the iceberg), and my mother cut off contact wiith her mother when I was about eleven, for much the same reasons. (Add to that my maternal grandmother is physically abusive.) My sister was about seven at the time.

IMO, whatever you can explain to the kids, the better. They're more likely to have less trouble accepting it if there's good reason that they can understand behind it. I got told more detail about my maternal grandmother than my sister did because I was older, but essentially, it was around the lines of, "Your grandmother did things that hurt your mother, and we're afraid she would hurt you in the same way," with enough detail to make it stick.

I'm sorry it had to come to this, but I'm glad you're going through with this. Cause none of you need this kinda crap in your lives. *hugs*

[dimers.livejournal.com]

K's relationship with the Sanctuary as a whole is, and has long been, abusive. The standard advice for the object of abuse is to terminate the relationship entirely, hard as that may be -- in this case, because of the children's feelings. I wholly support your collective decision, intellectually. And you have to realize how much I empathize with your emotions that drove the choice. Even putting aside my worldview, which says that people generally try to do what's best for a situation and that therefore your decision is probably for the best, I couldn't be disappointed or angry with y'all over any reasoned reaction to K. I'm not saying I'm calm; I'm upset that this $#!t happened at all, forcing your hand. But I'm not upset at you.

If you want to talk verbally, give me a call sometime. Make sure all the address books are up to date -- 617-312-3212 cell, 617-738-3115 home. I'm usually asleep from midnight to 5 these days; anything else is questionable.

[catchild.livejournal.com]

i've updated the phone numbers. i still had the pa one in the book.

hugs to you.