Iraq Stuff That's Been Running Through My Head

[omimouse]

I've been hearing, over and over, about how we shouldn't be apologizing this much for the Abu Ghraib . . . thing. (The English language does not have words for how strongly I feel about this mess, so that's just going to have to suffice.)

The debaters usually argue that US civilians were dragged through the streets and hung from bridges, the Iraqi insurgents are far worse, they'd do this to every one of us if they had the chance, and "they started it in the first place!"

I don't accept that kind of an excuse from my children. Why am I supposed to accept it from grown men and women? Am I supposed to ignore the fact that the very people yowling "But they were stressed/angry/upset/the troops are the real victims" the loudest are the same people who yowl that criminals have more rights than victims? That they argue the loudest that mitigating cricumstances or stress doesn't matter, that a criminal should not be allowed to get free on the argument that he/she "had a bad day/childhood/life/was under extreme amounts of stress"?

Am I supposed to ignore such blatant hypocrisy? Torture is flat out, no excuses acceptable wrong. Murder (use your own common sense as to what murder means here; combat and self-defense generally don't fall under the term of murder) and sexual assault are wrong. I do not care who does it, the acts are wrong. I don't really care what happened to them in their childhood, if they had a bad day at the office, if their stress levels are skyrocketing, the acts are wrong. I don't care if "the other side is doing it", it still makes the acts wrong. Trying to hide behind the excuse of "but they're doing it!" is something else that I don't accept from my children. I find it inexcusable behaviour in adults.

You do not cease to act in a civilized fashion simply because the other side is not adhering to your standards of civilized behaviour. If that was how this country worked, there'd be wars in the streets on a daily basis. You think I'm overreacting? Ask Jerry Falwell about a woman's place. Ask a militant feminist about male oppression. Ask Limbaugh about gay marriage. Ask that radically pro gay-marriage lesbian her opinion on Limbaugh. Ask most Pagans about Christianity. Try and get some of the more militant polyamoury supporters to tell you the benefits of monogamy. Then try and ask that right-wing monogamist what they think about having two husbands. Ask the NRA about gun control, and then ask Greenpeace the same thing. Ask a few thousand white Americans their honest opinion on blacks, and then ask a few thousand black Americans their honest opinion on whites.

Now, tell me honestly, if we were all allowed to treat each other the way we felt everyone else deserved to be treated, or how we felt they were treating us, what do you think would happen?

What happened was wrong. No amount of excuses, or trying to hide behind orders, or ignorance is going to change that. It was wrong. It was wrong, and we owe more than an apology. We owe them the clean-up of this whole mess, and we owe it to them now. We owe them - we owe the whole world - a full explanation of what happened, and why, and the names of all who were responsible. And as far as I'm concerned, those responsible should be being tried at the World Court in Den Haag.

And we need to stop trying to pretend that America is incapable of fucking up big time. We need to stop pretending that Americans as a whole are incapable of fucking up big time. Most importantly, we need to stop pretending that a uniform or an office makes a person perfect and deserving of complete and blind support and obedience.

Comments

[pagawne.livejournal.com]

Good for you.

[sidhebird.livejournal.com]

Bravo! Whohoo!

*:)Sidhe

[warinbear.livejournal.com]

And we need to stop trying to pretend that America is incapable of fucking up big time.

As I posted in response to one of noelfigart's entries the other day, "What mean we, paleface?"

I am personally of the opinion that the USA is a terrific place to be, and to be from, and to belong to. I can't think of another country I'd rather live in -- granted, I haven't done a lot of research on other candidates. This does not mean I think the streets are paved with gold, that God Himself gave the nation a badge and told it to be the world's policeman, or that there is nothing about it that could be improved -- that's just foolish. I think it's similar to the quote from Ben Franklin (I think) about democracy being the worst kind of government, except for every other kind; the USA may not be Heaven-On-Earth, but it doesn't have to be that good to be good.

[omimouse.livejournal.com]

-shrug-

I've lived in the Netherlands and in the US. Personally, I found the Netherlands to be quite an improvement, especially as far as social structure is concerned. It's not perfect either; no country is perfect. Its just got a lot more in the way of freedoms for its citizens.

Yes, I said it. There is a country that grants its citizens more freedoms -in every aspect of their lives- thatn the United States of America. I now await the label of terrorist.

The point is, any country is capable of screwing up big time. Most Americans just seem to think that saying that your country, or that officials of your country are capable of majorly fucking up is unpatriotic lies.

And, now for an odd spatial moment. I will now turn around, and ask you if you wish to continue the conversation in RL. :) I think it'd be fun to have a good, friendly socio-political debate.

[warinbear.livejournal.com]

I now await the label of terrorist.

<mode MELODRAMA> Terrorist! </mode>

I will now turn around, and ask you if you wish to continue the conversation in RL. :)

Certainly -- but it's going to have to wait until the morning. <glances at clock> Well, duh.

[sidhebird.livejournal.com]

I now await the label of terrorist.

Brings to mind the comment:

"What is the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter?"

"Which side you're on."