My Take on the Relationship Tangle
Jan. 6th, 2004 02:44 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
omimouseFor those interested in The Ongoing Saga (and especially for those of us who are part of it), I submit the following points:
Point 1: We all love each other. The Sanctuary crew loves the Nashville crew, and vice versa. We don't want to lose each other. We are family.
Point 2: We are a stubborn lot, and we're a lot prouder than we'd like to admit to being. That goes for all of us, Sanctuary and Nashville alike. None of us want to admit to having made a mistake, and none of us wants to back down once we feel that we are in the right. We will let stubborn pride blind us to anything that we do not agree with, and never realize that refusing to give an inch is losing us all that we hold dear.
Point 3: If we don't find a way to sit down calmly and talk this out together, as a family, then we will lose each other. It's that simple. Things have been ignored or been being shoved aside for too long now for us to do so any longer. This is no longer a relationship issue, it is a family problem, and we must find a way to fix it as a family. Where this will be held, I don't know, but I do know that it needs to be soon. My preference would be for within the month, so that the emotions don't have more oppurtunity to stew and solidify than they already have.
Point 4: We need a mediator, folks. I know that several of you would like to keep this private; strictly a discussion among those involved in the romantic realtionships. Well, you tried that and it blew up in your faces. Not only did it blow up in your faces, it blew up all over those of us who weren't present for the discussion. I hereby repeat myself: This is no longer a relationship issue, it is a family problem, and we must find a way to fix it as a family. We need someone to keep this from degenerating into a lot of yelling and very little discussion.
I further submit my take on the problems themselves:
Point A: L is not stupid, nor is he unobservant. He talks and interacts with Bear-Cub and Puppy all the time, and Bear-Cub at least knows the full relationship structure between Sanctuary and Nashville. I understand putting one's children first, but there is doing that, and then there is overdoing it. If you are going to be poly, your children are going to find out about it. This is inevitable. Trying to pretend that you are just friends, and not even very close friends at that whenever L is around is pointless, and puts severe strain on the relationship and those who are in it.
Point B: More time needs to be spent together, and not just at any one place. Finances and job schedule have interfered with this in the past, and will probably continue to do so in the future. That, and if![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
catchild and Phooka go someplace, Phooka needs to have somewhere that she run around without hurting herself. She can reach up to breast height on me, she climbs, and she puts everything that she can grab directly into her mouth. Once we have the finaces to visit on a frequent basis, maybe outings to parks and such in the Nashville/Columbia/etc. area? I honestly don't know how easy or convient it would be for you to baby proof your living room. We could bring a gate with us easily enough to block off baby access into the kitchen. Nightbreed and his lady's house is another good place for family gatherings, especially since we'd all like to spend more time with them as well. With Ebon no longer working six days a week, the only current hinderances to us coming up there more often are finances and Phooka safety.
Point C: Blood-family and non-blood family. This one's a biggie. You didn't really want to deal with potential fallout from us being around your blood-relatives when they came to visit you, andcatchild didn't want to deal with her stepdad being snide about you and Ebon spending time together when he was here. For all of us: Either our family of origin will accept us and love us for who we are, or they will not. Pretending to be someone that you are not is very rarely, if ever, a good idea. All it does is delay the moment when your blood-family finds out what you have been working so dilegently to hide from them. And the longer you have been trying to keep them from finding out, the stronger the reaction will be. In my viewpoint, a lie of omission is still a lie. If you have to pretend whn they're over, then you're lying to yourself and to them about how and what you are. You don't have to spell everything out for them, just be yourself and let them figure it out for themselves. They might just surprise you by not going ballastic about it. They might even be pretending to be someone that they're not to avoid upseting *you*.
Point D: The bonfire mess. I wan't there for any of it, so all I have to go on is what I've been told and what I've seenreana post about in her comment response to catchild. Both sides say that the other wasn't noticing the pain that they were causing, and both sides say that the other was yelling or accusing or something else along those lines. As I was not there, the only conclusion that I can draw was that everyone probably did a little of everything, and memory and perspective is distorting the rest. Honestly, from what I've heard, that whole fiasco should be like a neon sign to all involved, screaming in lurid glory "You need a mediator!"
Point E: Relationships, seperation illness, and related subjects. I love Celtic knotwork, but this is going just a touch to far. You all need to stabilize existing relationships before you go looking for another. Otherwise, it's all just going to collapse on you all over again. Seperation illness. I'm not really sure what to say on this one. I belive both of you when you say that you cannot be seperated for more than six hours without becoming violently ill. However, in all seriousness and with no sarcasm intended, I really hope that neither of you have to go on an extended business trip. That, and such a restriction all but guaruntees that your blood-family will find out about J. So will L. What is so different about your relationship with J that you are willing to be this open about it, when you will not permit Ebon (indeed, any of us) the same openess?
Final: We will either work through this, or it will crash and burn around us. We will all need to make compromises, including ones that we'd probably rather not make. We all need to change how we act and react. This will not work if any one side tries to make it work all by themselves. We all have to want it to work, and be willing to put the time and effort into making it work. In any case, I'm not going to let it end like this.
Congratulations. The mouse found her backbone, and it has spikes on it.
Point 1: We all love each other. The Sanctuary crew loves the Nashville crew, and vice versa. We don't want to lose each other. We are family.
Point 2: We are a stubborn lot, and we're a lot prouder than we'd like to admit to being. That goes for all of us, Sanctuary and Nashville alike. None of us want to admit to having made a mistake, and none of us wants to back down once we feel that we are in the right. We will let stubborn pride blind us to anything that we do not agree with, and never realize that refusing to give an inch is losing us all that we hold dear.
Point 3: If we don't find a way to sit down calmly and talk this out together, as a family, then we will lose each other. It's that simple. Things have been ignored or been being shoved aside for too long now for us to do so any longer. This is no longer a relationship issue, it is a family problem, and we must find a way to fix it as a family. Where this will be held, I don't know, but I do know that it needs to be soon. My preference would be for within the month, so that the emotions don't have more oppurtunity to stew and solidify than they already have.
Point 4: We need a mediator, folks. I know that several of you would like to keep this private; strictly a discussion among those involved in the romantic realtionships. Well, you tried that and it blew up in your faces. Not only did it blow up in your faces, it blew up all over those of us who weren't present for the discussion. I hereby repeat myself: This is no longer a relationship issue, it is a family problem, and we must find a way to fix it as a family. We need someone to keep this from degenerating into a lot of yelling and very little discussion.
I further submit my take on the problems themselves:
Point A: L is not stupid, nor is he unobservant. He talks and interacts with Bear-Cub and Puppy all the time, and Bear-Cub at least knows the full relationship structure between Sanctuary and Nashville. I understand putting one's children first, but there is doing that, and then there is overdoing it. If you are going to be poly, your children are going to find out about it. This is inevitable. Trying to pretend that you are just friends, and not even very close friends at that whenever L is around is pointless, and puts severe strain on the relationship and those who are in it.
Point B: More time needs to be spent together, and not just at any one place. Finances and job schedule have interfered with this in the past, and will probably continue to do so in the future. That, and if
catchild and Phooka go someplace, Phooka needs to have somewhere that she run around without hurting herself. She can reach up to breast height on me, she climbs, and she puts everything that she can grab directly into her mouth. Once we have the finaces to visit on a frequent basis, maybe outings to parks and such in the Nashville/Columbia/etc. area? I honestly don't know how easy or convient it would be for you to baby proof your living room. We could bring a gate with us easily enough to block off baby access into the kitchen. Nightbreed and his lady's house is another good place for family gatherings, especially since we'd all like to spend more time with them as well. With Ebon no longer working six days a week, the only current hinderances to us coming up there more often are finances and Phooka safety.Point C: Blood-family and non-blood family. This one's a biggie. You didn't really want to deal with potential fallout from us being around your blood-relatives when they came to visit you, and
catchild didn't want to deal with her stepdad being snide about you and Ebon spending time together when he was here. For all of us: Either our family of origin will accept us and love us for who we are, or they will not. Pretending to be someone that you are not is very rarely, if ever, a good idea. All it does is delay the moment when your blood-family finds out what you have been working so dilegently to hide from them. And the longer you have been trying to keep them from finding out, the stronger the reaction will be. In my viewpoint, a lie of omission is still a lie. If you have to pretend whn they're over, then you're lying to yourself and to them about how and what you are. You don't have to spell everything out for them, just be yourself and let them figure it out for themselves. They might just surprise you by not going ballastic about it. They might even be pretending to be someone that they're not to avoid upseting *you*.Point D: The bonfire mess. I wan't there for any of it, so all I have to go on is what I've been told and what I've seen
reana post about in her comment response to catchild. Both sides say that the other wasn't noticing the pain that they were causing, and both sides say that the other was yelling or accusing or something else along those lines. As I was not there, the only conclusion that I can draw was that everyone probably did a little of everything, and memory and perspective is distorting the rest. Honestly, from what I've heard, that whole fiasco should be like a neon sign to all involved, screaming in lurid glory "You need a mediator!"Point E: Relationships, seperation illness, and related subjects. I love Celtic knotwork, but this is going just a touch to far. You all need to stabilize existing relationships before you go looking for another. Otherwise, it's all just going to collapse on you all over again. Seperation illness. I'm not really sure what to say on this one. I belive both of you when you say that you cannot be seperated for more than six hours without becoming violently ill. However, in all seriousness and with no sarcasm intended, I really hope that neither of you have to go on an extended business trip. That, and such a restriction all but guaruntees that your blood-family will find out about J. So will L. What is so different about your relationship with J that you are willing to be this open about it, when you will not permit Ebon (indeed, any of us) the same openess?
Final: We will either work through this, or it will crash and burn around us. We will all need to make compromises, including ones that we'd probably rather not make. We all need to change how we act and react. This will not work if any one side tries to make it work all by themselves. We all have to want it to work, and be willing to put the time and effort into making it work. In any case, I'm not going to let it end like this.
Congratulations. The mouse found her backbone, and it has spikes on it.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2004-01-06 07:36 pm (UTC)Here's a starter. You agree not to push on them your preferences regarding openness/truthfulness, and they agree to abide by rationally achieved conclusions on the topic, once it has been discussed solely for this practical (i.e. not theoretical) purpose. You're a stubborn lot, and the stubbornness you collectively bear on this vital point is not something that will help the family grow back together. To re-word: don't talk about it until everyone's agreed to abide by a common decision. And if that'll never happen, then resign yourself to 'agreeing to disagree,' and don't harp on the issue. Because, and I quote, "refusing to give an inch is losing us all that we hold dear."
Any other issues can be treated much the same. Drop it, and don't pick it up until you remember what's important.
I think everyone needs to leave the computer, pick up the phone, and call someone just to say "I'm sorry if I hurt you, and I miss you."
Go ahead, do it. Sounds like a big pride-y pill to swallow, sounds cheesy, and yet IT WORKS. Do you want family enough that you'll be the first to reach out, or is it really not that important to you? (collective-you, not omi-you)
(no subject)
Date: 2004-01-06 10:18 pm (UTC)hmm. maybe i'm kamikaze joy.. volunteering to run out into the middle of a mine field. what am i thinking? oh yeah, it's that whole caring about my friends thing. oy vey!
hugs
Date: 2004-01-07 07:02 am (UTC)i've tried calling so has ebon. two weeks later i got a call back. we seem to not be able to get through. in 3 weeks i've gotten through to the land line twice, once to a person other than reanna once to an answering machine. neither call was returned. between us ebon and i have left 7 messages on her cell phone i got a call back a few days ago. she said she'd call ebon the next day. the call never came. when he called her monday she wouldn't talk to him because she was upset at my post. we haven't gotten through again since.
Go ahead, do it. Sounds like a big pride-y pill to swallow, sounds cheesy, and yet IT WORKS. Do you want family enough that you'll be the first to reach out, or is it really not that important to you? (collective-you, not omi-you)
i don't have any pride anymore. if groveling would work i'd do it. i won't allow J near me because of his willingness to state things violently and his refuseal to allow ebon a way to leave without calling names. if he saw the wrongness of those actions i would allow him a second chance near me but according to reanna he won't apologize because he did nothing wrong.