omimouse | Marriage

I don't get it. I honestly don't. What is honestly the problem with gay or poly marriage? Is it hurting somebody? Is it leaving bodies in the streets? Are orgies writhing their way through the mall and schools?

Here is the question: Why should gay and/or poly marriage not be legal? Do not refer to any religious texts in your answer. We are not a theocracy. You do not have the right to ram your religion down my throat. We are not the Taliban of the West, are we? Because if we are, then I'm going to the Netherlands and seeking political asylum.

I'm tired of reading the news and seeing the far right scream and wail about values and morals. I'm tired of being denied equal rights in my own country. I'm tired of watching hatred and fear dictate law. I'm tired of not feeling welcome in my own country. I'm tired, and I don't even understand why they hate us so much, why they want to deny us the right to marry, because It. Does. Not. Make. Any. Sense.

I'm not even angry. I'm alternating between pain and grief, and nothing. I feel so cold.

I'm going to go play Civ 3 for a while. Building things always helps me feel better.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

The views expressed below are not necessarily (no chance in hell) those of the author of the article. I'm playing Devil's Advocate ... oddly appropriate, to talk about religious opposition to human rights as the Devil's work ... because I find it fun. I like to stretch my brain and consider lots of viewpoints. Call it roleplaying. Please don't shoot me.
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It seems clear that gay male relationships, at least, lack a serious binding element. I have gay friends aplenty, and their relationships are based, time and time again, on a passion which does not last. These friends of mine fool themselves into believing, with each boyfriend of more than two months, that this time it will last forever. It never does. They don't seem to even attempt to develop friendship to maintain their relationship; they just hurt each other and move on to the next boy when it's all over.

Let's say that, procreation aside, the value of marriage which recommends it to governmental regulation is social stability. To paraphrase, the reason The Feds should support marriage is to keep people calm. Marriage between gay men wouldn't serve that purpose. Not only would millions of religious people be vastly less calm, thinking that their values are not being represented, but it wouldn't help the gay men anyway. Don't say it -- I've heard the argument that it's lack of government and social support which leads to the instability of gay relationships, but I've already shown that it's a widespread psychological problem, a matter of lifestyle. If gay marriage were allowed, there would just be a lot of gay divorces too.

I dare say, most of the couples actively fighting to be allowed to marry will stay together as long as it takes to change the law; they have camaraderie. And their relationships wouldn't last long after that.

Lesbians are another issue entirely. Though lesbian couples tend to be more retiring, less a part of the social whirl, their relationships are more stable than normal hetero pairings are. As far as stability goes, the government would do well to formally recognize the couplings. But if gay women are allowed marriage, gay men have to be allowed as well, which will do no one but the lawyers much good.

As for poly groupings -- the legal intricacies of insurance, child support/visitation, spouse rights (such as "pull the plug" decisions), and more -- even immigration by marriage -- are geared toward two adults. An army of law experts and a decade of serious thought would be needed to rewrite applicable federal, state, and local laws, even if everyone in the nation agreed that poly marriage were both valuable and important. With modern American culture being what it is, enough people would object that once again only the lawyers would gain significant benefit. And surely you don't suggest that we need to support MORE lawyers! =) Then of course there are those who would abuse the system, claiming multiple spouses for reasons of finances or leverage.

And IS poly marriage both valuable and important? Would it contribute to social stability, or would it make the standard of marriage less meaningful and emotionally weighted by its commonness? Would enough people gain enough happiness to make worthwhile those huge necessitated changes -- or would our culturally-ingrained jealousy interfere in any grouping of more than two, for the vast majority of Americans? It's a small issue to raise such a big fuss over, and while it's important to YOU ... well, let's just say that religious fundamentalism in government is just as vital, to a lot more people.

You play a very good Devil's Lawyer, dear. NJote that I am not annoyed with you, but am responding to the above argument.

Since when is it the government's duty to keep people calm? People are responsible for keeping themselves calm. People of religion can calm themselves with the knowledge that no religion need ever recognize these marriages.

It is the government's duty to do what is right and just, not what is popular, or in some cases, even what is considered 'moral'. Especially since true justice is rarely either. True justice in this case is full equality under the law, and popularity or religious morals have nothing whatsoever to do with the law.

Oh, nonononono, I'm not saying it's the government's DUTY to keep people calm -- I'm just saying that it's only likely to act based on self-interest, and that's one of the strongest interests of a government. Gotta keep the peasants in line. And sadly, while people SHOULD be responsible for keeping themselves calm, the frequency of that joyous occurrence is dropping all the time.

Now, if we're going to talk about what the government ought to do ... I'm sorry, but I couldn't present a half-assed Devil's Advocacy for restriction of marriage. (I could make an advocacy, but it'd be an eighth of an ass, tops.) Goddesses above and below, the very idea of what a government should do hasn't notably crossed my mind for five years or more. =)

Marriage

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